SPN_Darkside Episode Poll: 15.20 Carry On

[sylsdarkplace]

15.20 Carry On -- Supernatural series finale.
Writer: Andrew Dabb
Director: Robert Singer

Domestic Winchesters

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Yay! Miracle is there!

29(23.6%)

Why doesn't Sam take Miracle running with him?

11(8.9%)

Love Dean messily straightening up

23(18.7%)

Oooo, sexy Sam

18(14.6%)

Wait, Dean is the cook.

9(7.3%)

Aw, the boys settling in the library to research.

11(8.9%)

This is too good to last

22(17.9%)

Sam hitting Dean with the pie in the face

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It's okay. Dean loves pie.

17(22.4%)

Shades of prankster Sam from back in the day

28(36.8%)

Dean finally gets pie -- all the pie.

12(15.8%)

Mm, now I want pie.

1(1.3%)

This is too good to last.

18(23.7%)

The hunt

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What the ...?

6(8.1%)

Mime-pires lol

19(25.7%)

More like Jugaloopires

8(10.8%)

What vampires cut out people's tongues

13(17.6%)

Jenny? No way!

10(13.5%)

Two brothers. I get it.

18(24.3%)

The fight

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Remember when Dean could kick demon ass?

14(20.0%)

Sam is doing really well

8(11.4%)

That makes me uncomfortable

8(11.4%)

Yes!

8(11.4%)

No!

11(15.7%)

Really? Really?!

21(30.0%)

So that happened

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Wouldn't Dean be in a lot more pain?

8(13.8%)

He's made of the toughest stuff

9(15.5%)

It shouldn't have happened this way.

9(15.5%)

Not even killed by a worthy foe.

7(12.1%)

This was unacceptable.

7(12.1%)

This was completely right.

18(31.0%)

The most emotional thing about The Talk

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Dean making Sam say "It's okay."

16(16.0%)

Sam saying, "It's okay."

10(10.0%)

Dean telling Sam he is proud of him.

10(10.0%)

Dean talking about the night he picked him up at Stanford.

8(8.0%)

"I love you so much. My baby brother."

11(11.0%)

All of it.

29(29.0%)

I can't even.

16(16.0%)

Dean in Heaven

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Yay! Bobby is there to meet him

25(37.9%)

Dean's heaven be a bar?

2(3.0%)

The bar is over yonder.

2(3.0%)

Why doesn't he go see his mom and dad or Ellen and Jo or any number of people?

4(6.1%)

Because it isn't Heaven until Sam joins him.

26(39.4%)

So is Dean grieving in Heaven? Discuss.

7(10.6%)

Sam on earth

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Grieving for 30+ years. I can't.

25(25.8%)

At least Sam had Miracle and the Impala

12(12.4%)

Sam got the normal he always wanted

9(9.3%)

He named his son Dean. Stick a fork in me!

19(19.6%)

Was there a woman? There must have been a woman.

4(4.1%)

His son telling him it was okay to go broke my heart.

19(19.6%)

I see Exile on Main Street parallels

6(6.2%)

I see We Need to Talk About Kevin parallels.

3(3.1%)

The series finale was

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Perfect!

22(50.0%)

It could have been worse.

6(13.6%)

Loved some, hated some.

9(20.5%)

Meh

4(9.1%)

Hated it

3(6.8%)

 

Comments

[sylsdarkplace]

Okay first, I just want to say that this was a really difficult poll to write. Sorry I messed up the Dean in Heaven question. The option should say, "Shouldn't Dean' heaven be a bar?"

I'm not going to lie. My first impression was, "It could have been worse." I mean, a lot worse. I completely get why Jensen didn't like it when he first read it. That's not the way he/many of us thought it should be, and I am still trying to get over him dying and Sam being left alone. I posted on tumblr this morning:

Why is no one talking about the decades of grief, the decades of I can’t do it alone, yes you can, so he does. He puts one foot in front of the other. He gets in the Impala and he drives. He drives away from the bunker and never goes back. What made it home isn’t there. He doesn’t hit a dog because he has a dog. He has Miracle. Dean left him with that at least. A reason to live. He hunts. He sees Jody, the girls, Garth and family. Eventually, he does meet a woman. He doesn’t tell her much except that his brother died. Maybe she lost someone too. She doesn’t pry and he doesn’t say much. She lets him grieve and doesn’t make much of the nightmares and tears. Then, there’s a baby. They didn’t plan it that way but they love him. They name him for Dean, and he pours his love into the child. But even that, even this child that he would give his life for doesn’t fill the hole in his chest. Every night he locks the doors, checks the warding, and turns off the lights. Sometimes, he goes to the garage, pulls the tarp off Baby, and gets in the driver’s seat. He took her out one sunny day early on, but he did’t get around the block before he had to pull over, blinded by tears ... After that, he keeps the tags and insurance up but doesn’t take her out. He can’t go home because it is empty. Just like the bunker. He lives in a place he calls home, but it isn’t where the heart is. It isn’t that there isn’t joy in his life. There is. Laughter, smiles, pleasure and every single minute is bittersweet. All of it is tinged with longing and grief. He never tells a living soul that he longs for death or that he lives for someone else -- a promise that he has to keep and, yes, for them because he understands what is to lose someone you love -- but not for himself. His heart’s desire, home, is beyond the veil. Waiting.

Why is no one talking about this?

Dean goes to Heaven, goes for a drive, and bam! Sam is with him, but poor Sam ... I do see parallels to Dean living with Lisa and Ben. We can fill in the good times, the love, the keeping busy, but we know there is unbearable grief, nightmares (cause still traumatized, still a hunter). I also see the Amelia and Rowdy parallel except the Impala isn't wrecked and Sam already has Miracle. There is a lot of history there for the writers to lean on, and they need it because what they give us in that episode is very sketchy. One thing we can be sure of, I think, from Sam's history is that he isn't okay. He is strong and smart and he will do his best, but he isn't okay. And happy as he might be in any given moment, there is a huge hole in his chest where his brother lived.

And something that occurred to me as I was writing the poll is that question about why Dean didn't go see his mom and dad or anyone besides Bobby? Clearly, he was waiting for Sam? But why? Is he grieving? Is he lonely without Sam? I know Bobby said time passes differently in Heaven. Maybe it seemed like a short drive. Maybe Dean didn't want to experience anything without Sam. So he just drove ... kind of like Sam.

So, am I happy with this episode? It could have been worse.

[meus_venator]

Okay, well problems or not, I cried through half the episode. I loved the final goodbye scene between Sam and Dean. It didn't seem as derivative as some of their speeches this season. I certainly got me in the feels. And overall I thought this was a good end to the series. Maybe not a great one, but they didn't screw it up too badly.

I have a lot of random thoughts/quibbles:
Dean wouldn't keep his room that messy. The way we saw it that one show when they first moved into the bunker where Dean had all his guns mounted on the wall and the memory foam mattress first remembered him. That's Dean. And Sam would DEFINITELY have taken Miracle jogging with them. It would have been both their dogs (and who puts a dog dish in their bedroom?)

Yeah, stupid fight and stupid enemy to be killed by. Not really worthy of Dean's death.
I can't help but think that Sam would have called for Jack. It's Dean after all. He would break all the rules and do anything for Dean. Why stop now?

Also, why kill Dean off so quickly? it kills any chance of the boys doing a mini-series later on.
If they'd shown some grey in both their hair, like they had been at this for a while, it would have left room to revisit the Winchesters in the future. This is like a salt and burn so they can't go back. : (

I can forgive Dean being killed by a stupid, unworthy foe (I kept thinking all those stuntmen probably had masks on under the masks), a weird random death happening out of the blue was bound to happen to one of them. This just seemed kind of jerky/poorly done and too early in the show.

Heaven: I liked that Jack had torn down the walls and we got a brief nod that Castiel wasn't rotting in the empty, but being of angelic use. But I can't believe Dean's heaven is only empty roads. He could have driven through towns or been parked at motels or shown a nice little house with a picket fence and a big garage. Even with Covid-19 (Which is why I handwave away visiting with friends and family, I assume he does all that).

But I loved Sam simply appearing behind Dea in Heaven, ready to go. (I did see a woman standing on the porch when Sam was playing with little Dean, but she obviously didn't compare to his relationship to Dean). But them together and so obviously content was just lovely

Sam's makeup as an old man was so laughable, (If I hadn't already been crying). He looked like some kind of mad scientist, but I got the gist. It's a shame because it could have been better done and killed us even more.

I thought the message from J2 and the crew belonged in the wrap-up episode not this one episode.
It would have given more time/room to show the boys hunting over the years.

I thought the use of our song was PERFECT, they used so many versions of it to just brilliant effect. The words were so prophetic.

But overall, I am pretty damn happy. If it had to end, what better place than with the boys together and happy in heaven?

[fufaraw]

That's where I am, too. This isn't the finale I would have written; mine would have been not--I'd have stopped at 15.19--for me, that ending was perfect.

But I can accept this, if I don't think about it too much. If I concentrate on things like the actors' performance, which was note perfect in every way.

Two points you brought up--1.Jenny? The instant after the mimes were revealed as vampires, as the black-clad legs strutted into view, I actually expected Kate, from the same episode, and 2. Wouldn't Dean be in a lot more pain? From someone I know who survived a stabbing, it feels like you've been punched, there's no feeling of penetration, and very little pain, unless you move so that the blade (or spike, whatever) moves inside you and does more damage, or you remove the blade.

I do hope at some point Sam offered Garth or one of the girls the key to the bunker--all that knowledge sealed away when it could be useful rankles, a bit. It hurts to think about Sam grieving through the decades, as you say. And their reunion, while sweet, had a lot of bitter in it.

But it's done, and it wasn't awful. I guess now it's us who'll have to carry on.

[sylsdarkplace]

On Sam not calling Jack. Maybe he did. Remember Jack said he wasn't going to be hands-on so maybe Jack didn't answer or as Jack said God is inside everyone. Maybe Sam realized it was the time to let Dean go to Heaven, especially since it seemed to be what Dean wanted.

On the chance for a reboot -- My cynical side thinks that what was what this ending was all about. After all, Sam has left a son behind -- a son who could bring his dad and uncle back from Heaven. Huh? See what they did there?

I didn't get how Castiel could have had an influence. Did Jack somehow get Cas out of the Empty? I don't get that at all.

Yeah, Sam's old man make up, especially with the crazy hair in the Impala, was pretty bad. It seemed slightly more believable on his deathbed.

I feared tptb would do some kind of Swan Song thing where the boys were separated at the end so I am glad the boys are together in Heaven. That much is huge!

[sylsdarkplace]

I agree that 15.19 would have made a better ending.

The performances were amazing -- to the extent that they were performances. With the way that Sam's hands were shaking in that death scene, I'm pretty sure that was Jared right there.

Yes! I hope Sam passed the bunker on to other hunters.

Overall, I am happy with the episode, which I had been dreading. It was okay. I can't decide if I should watch it again or not. I might like it better or worse. LOL

[fufaraw]

I neglected to mention that they used the living room set from Bobby's house, with the stained glass windows flanking the fireplace, above which hung the framed photo of Sam, Dean, John, and Mary taken at the one dinner they all had together. They even kept the red wallpaper--Sam had to scramble (I imagine) maybe even use some of his sources to find replica wallpaper for his own house. Another callback.

[sylsdarkplace]

Good catch! I wasn't watching that closely.

[ellerkay.livejournal.com]

I'm relieved to see someone else with mixed feelings - I was starting to feel like the only one who didn't either think it was perfect (or nearly) or think it was the worst thing ever! I thought it was largely well done and beautifully acted, but I'm gutted to think of Dean not getting to live a life and of Sam having to live his life without Dean. I've been pretty upset about that aspect of it, but starting to calm down and hope it's something I can feel more accepting of in time. You put it well when you said it could have been worse, and seeing them reunited at the end is a help.

Your Tumblr post is heartbreaking and beautiful <3 Thanks for sharing it.

[ellerkay.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to see others who didn't completely love or totally hate this - I was starting to think I was the only one!

This isn't the finale I would have written; mine would have been not--I'd have stopped at 15.19--for me, that ending was perfect.
SAME. I may be taking a cue from the HP fandom's "epilogue, what epilogue" and saying "finale, what finale" in my head a lot, especially when it comes to writing fanfic.

But I can accept this, if I don't think about it too much. If I concentrate on things like the actors' performance, which was note perfect in every way.
Yeah, they did an incredible job. There was a lot I liked about this in execution, most especially J2's work.

I guess now it's us who'll have to carry on.
Well put. <3

[anniespinkhouse.livejournal.com]

I still need time to think and digest it all. After bailing on the last few seasons, this at least was a perfect conclusion. I feel that Kripke's boys were returned to me - that the crappy lol canon and angel (non) drama can be waved away as Chuck's unwinding mind. It gave me peace.

And yes, the performances were incredible, non verbal moments every bit as emotional. The sets, lighting, camera work, costume, direction - every member of the crew excelled themselves.

The vamps were genuinely scary, oh for real dark horror moments.

I don't think this took place immediately after 15.19. Their routine was well worn imo. They seemed happy and settled. I think they left that open for head canons and fic but if anyone wants to ask the question at a con it might be interesting. Similarly, I think Dean's drive until he met Sam, seemed short to him, because of Bobby's comment about time. I saw it as being mere hours or even minutes for him.

I was good with Dean's demise. It wasn't carelessness or poor writing. It was a random, stupid and believable accident like hunters fall to, that harked back to a previous 'death'. Because remember the taser electrocution in 'Faith'. It was a normal death that Chuck would not have allowed him to have. He had agency in it. Oh and - not a nail! This was a bigass and awful rebar that he was impaled on. I didn't have to like it, I was never going to like their deaths, but it made sense to me. For some reason it brought the Torchwood 'Random Shoes' monologue to mind.

I can't believe we got naked chest, domestic Winchesters, a dog, horror, competent boys, death, codependancy, a road trip and epic emotional scenes all in one episode.

And Sam made sure there was a legacy, a Winchester to safeguard the world. I do believe he knuckled down and wanted to stay to make his son safe and loved and pass on their knowledge in the way Dean had been his rock- to honour him and also because Sam is that man.I believe that only once he had achieved that, did he allow himself to think about letting go. Just my little head canon. I loved how soft his death scene was.

I have so many more thinky thoughts and have taken a bunch of pretty screencaps today which I haven't been inclined to do for a very long time.

I cried. A lot. But I am grateful that justice was done for Sam and Dean in the end.

[anniespinkhouse.livejournal.com]

I knew I'd seen that wallpaper and stained glass somewhere!

[anniespinkhouse.livejournal.com]

*coughs* I do currently have cat dishes in my bedroom. (In my defence enemy Covid guest cat is downstairs)

OMG the hair! Yeah that was a bit funny. The music was great. Carry On's words fitted to the montage like a fanvidder had created it and I also really loved 'Brother in Arms' for Dean's funeral. And thank you Covid for making that funeral a private affair - Sam's loneliness was so much more poignant for it.

[anniespinkhouse.livejournal.com]

I am certain that Sam did return to the bunker on occasion, when he needed some small thing and Dean Jnr likely has the key and contact with their friends. My headcanon is that Sam did pass knowledge to him, at the very least as a Man of Letters since he did have the tattoo.

[meus_venator]

Me too! I remember it but not from where because I thought it was kind of reminiscent of Bobby's place when I saw it.

[meus_venator]

LOL! As a non-pet owner I just didn't think that was a thing : P

Sam's loneliness, the big gapping hole in his heart.... UGH. I kind of wish they'd ditched one of those useless episodes and had a whole episode devoted to Sam's life. Maybe it would be too heartbreaking though. Better saved for a fic.

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I've just skimmed through the responses here and when I'm in shape for it, will carefully read everything, but this caught my eye: It was a random, stupid and believable accident like hunters fall to, that harked back to a previous 'death'. Because remember the taser electrocution in 'Faith'. It was a normal death that Chuck would not have allowed him to have.

I agree with this so much.

[kazluvsbooks.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of this!
I was starting to dread what the would do with the finale, but this exceeded all my expectations.
just the boys, intertwined in life and death.
I am happy that covid made it that much smaller and intimate.
The little show that could.

[sylsdarkplace]

Thank you! I honestly think a lot of us have mixed feelings.

Dean not getting to live a life and of Sam having to live his life without Dean

Exactly. I saw a post that said the papers on Dean’s desk was a job application so he was planning a life outside hunting.

It’s a tragic ending no two ways about it, but at least the were together in the end.

[sylsdarkplace]

Oh yes! I prefer that they glossed over Sam’ “normal” life. Not only is better left to fanfic, but the Sam haters would have picked it apart.

[sylsdarkplace]

That’s right! He did! Okay, this is fitting more into my cynical theory that the finale was all set up for a reboot. Somehow, some way, Dean Jr. is going to have to spring his dad and uncle from heaven.

[sylsdarkplace]

You’ve thought through so many things I hadn’t had a chance to consider, and I feel like I should have watched twice before posting the poll. Although, the poll is just a springboard for discussion.

I like your thoughts about Sam teaching Dean Jr. to be a Man of Letters. Not only would it have given Sam a reason to go back to the bunker, but he would have introduced Dean Jr. to Garth, Jody, the girls, and Donna.

And spin-off? Reboot?

It’s funny we’re calling him Dean Jr. when technically he wouldn’t be.

[anniespinkhouse.livejournal.com]

Or time travel back to fix a loose end. The antichrist? Or some such.

[anniespinkhouse.livejournal.com]

My very low expectations may have played into my love for the episode but Patronhippie also said this:- "I think I just realized that one of the main reasons I loved the finale is that those of us that haven't watched in years could come back and watch it and not miss a beat. There was none of the useless nonsense from recent years to weigh things down lols may have played into me loving this so much." on Twitter and this is definitely the case for me too.

[kazluvsbooks.livejournal.com]

True, I made my hubby watch with me last night, he had only watched up to half way through S15, and he still really enjoyed it. I made the mistake of gasping loudly, when shirtless Sam appeared. Oopsie

[anniespinkhouse.livejournal.com]

I'm not normally a fan of fan service but that definitely got pass!